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Tom's avatar

further clarification of the idea:

in U.S. some states are large and have small population alaska

some are small and have small population Delaware

some are large ang have large populations New York, California

all including alaska, more than half, usually about 2-3rds or more, live in cities in each state.

so not fight between rural votes and urban voters if we talking about state versus state, if each voter has same chance to be elected.

but under FPTP Republican elected in low-population states in states labeled rural. rural voters in those palaces elect the members, urban voters are under-represented in those states.

and Democrats elected in high-population states in states labeled urban. urban voters in those places elect the members. rural (Republican) voters are under-represented in those states.

my belief is:

rural over-representation or minority rule is just as bad as urban over-representation or minority rule.

a government elected by a minority of voters in a group of "rural states" is bad

but also some may say that a government elected by voters in just cities or in just a corner of he country even if it is composed of a majority of U.S. voters may be undemocratic. why should voters in 95 percent of the country by land area be disempowered?

and to address that kind of unfairness U.S. constitution gives each state the same representation in the Senate.

with FPTP used, this is obviously not working - it does not ensure majority rule, it also does not ensure majority representation in each state (or district).

but if we partition the states and adopt fair voting, a high proportion in each state would be represented, each state would likely elect a balanced crop of members.

still with 50 different districts (states ) and votes held separate in each, there is no guarantee of majority rule. that a majority of voters will elect the embers who compose the largest caucus in the chamber. but it would be better

so even if we partition the largest states we need PR in each state

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Tom's avatar

yes minority rule is wrong whether urban or rural.

if larger states can be broken up, then for sure i would agree with using city boundaries for the new city-states literally speaking.

But rep. by pop. (through equal rep. for equal state population, through partitioning of large states)) is no guarantee of majority rule.

What you say about need for MMDs and STV to elect the House applies to Senate.

it seems logical that if number of reps per state cannot vary, then states should be made same size.

but fair voting is needed -- each voter having one vote and it is transferable, and districts are state-wide, or at least district magnitude of five or some other odd number (seven? nine?)

even three is at least an improvement over 1.

because even if all states had exactly the same population, which means Delaware size, and that means California would be divided into 60 states and that would mean Senate would have 480 Senators,

and even then you might still have minority rule unless you have fair election system.

even if each state had exactly same number of voters, voter turnout varies from place to place, and the percentage needed to be elected under FPTP varies from perhaps 24 percent to 80 percent and that variation is not evenly balanced from party to party.

so minority rule is still possible.

what you want I think is where 1/100th of votes cast elects one Senator. (so 51/100ths elects 51 out of 100 Senators.)

but you also must have districting due to Constitution, as each state is separate.

the more districts, the more electorate is splintered. and democratic chaos results.

choice seems to be to lump small states together or splinter the large ones into smaller units.

or to do either of those or neither but bring in fair voting.

if you are talking about raising the number of senators overall, then simply do that but give each voter one vote and make that transferable.

if states remain as is, majority rule would still be long shot

but let's say every 2M deserve their own state.

California would be maybe 16 states

(but the map shows many more than 16 "new states")

TX 16

FLA 12

New York 10

Pennsylvania Illinois 7 each

Ohio, Georgia, North Carolina 6 each

Michigan New Jersey, Virginia 5 each

Wash Ariz Tenn Mass. Indiana Maryland Missouri 4 each

something like that

population for each state would then range:

from Alaska at smallest (740,000 pop.) to 2M for a new state to 6M for Wisconsin, which let's suppose does not want to partition.

a range of factor of ten

versus today's range of a factor of 53 from California to Alaska.

U.S. grows to something like 164 states

(133 new states plus 31 old states)

with two per state, Senate composed of 328 Senators

with three per state (minimum for respectable PR), Senate would be composed of 492.

let's say each state elects three senators, and does that in one contest using STV, you would still have equal rep. from state to state, and in each state 75 percent of votes would actually elect someone, and a majority in each state would elect two or more of the three.

one-seat rep. would be quarter of votes in a state

in a large state (now Wisconsin is a large state!) would be about 1.5M with 185,000 votes enough for a seat in Alaska.

so still theoretically a quarter of votes could capture a majority in the Senate.

(even if each state was exactly equal in size, with electorate splintered into no less than 50 districts (states), majority rule is not guaranteed.)

What you say about need for MMDs and STV to elect the House applies to Senate.

improved rep by pop is no substitute for fair voting and MMDs:

"the most critical follow-on reform would be to replace single-seat House districts with multi-seat districts using proportional ranked-choice voting, while also expanding the House to 1,000 seats"

Abolishing the staggered terms does juice up the DM. If must have a third of seats elected each two years, make it the seats in a third of the states, not a third of the seats in all the states.

California has GDP of $4T. In the world. this is larger than all but Germany, China and the rest of the U.S. In case of civil war, some Trump states would be the poorer ones, despite his anti-poor rich-man statements.

thanks for reading

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