Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Marcus Ogren's avatar

"Even if one believes that center-squeeze scenarios weaken RCV’s propensity for moderating our politics, it’s implausible that they could be consequential at such a low frequency. Those who insist otherwise owe us either a careful argument as to why such rare events could have a substantial impact, or an argument as to why they might be more common in the future."

I agree. Here's my argument for why center squeezes have a substantial impact despite occurring infrequently: https://medium.com/@voting-in-the-abstract/rarely-occurring-pathologies-can-frequently-be-relevant-9b9dc8e9fe22

Moving beyond the frequency of center squeezes, the central argument of this post is poorly reasoned.

"If the Alaska race used Condorcet, Peltola and Palin would not improve their odds by earning more second choice rankings of Begich supporters."

This can only be true if Begich is a strong enough frontrunner that the probability of Palin and Peltola tying for first is negligible. If (say) Palin and Begich are competing for first, then under Condorcet they each have a strong incentive to appeal to to Peltola's supporters - an incentive that does not exist under RCV unless Peltola is liable to be eliminated in the first round. These incentives for Republican candidates to appeal to Democratic voters (and vice versa) are incentives against political extremism.

Alternatively, suppose Begich isn't a frontrunner (maybe he's a lot less popular in general in the alternative reality), and Palin and Peltola are the leading candidates. In that case, Condorcet provides every bit as strong of an incentive for Palin and Peltola to appeal to Begich's voters. In order to be the Condorcet winner, Peltola needs to have more voters rank her ahead of Palin than there are voters ranking Palin ahead of Peltola, and it doesn't matter whether these voter's first choice is Peltola, Begich, or a write-in. The claim the second-choice rankings are valuable under RCV, but not under Condorcet, is completely false.

"As Left and Right would soon discover, in a center-squeeze configuration they have an incentive to encourage their respective supporters to “bullet vote,” meaning rank them first and leave the rest of the rankings blank."

If Palin tells her supporters to bullet vote, that helps Peltola win; it does not help Palin. Palin getting her supporters to bullet does not cause her to be ranked higher than her opponents on any ballots, so it cannot help her become the Condorcet winner. Maybe you're claiming that Palin and Peltola would make a "deal with the devil" to tell each of their supporters to bullet vote, but individual voters are best off not heeding such suggestions.

"While bullet-voting offers no advantages to candidates under RCV, under Condorcet it could take the Center candidate out of the running, effectively setting up a plurality-style contest between the Left and Right candidates where they might stand a better shot at winning."

Even if there is a deal between the more extreme candidates to promote bullet voting and this successfully takes the centrist out of contention, it doesn't mean there would be a Plurality-style contest between Left and Right. Instead, it would be an RCV-style contest, with both the Left and Right candidates competing to be ranked higher than the other by the Center candidate's supporters.

I do agree with you and Ned Foley on one point: RCV provides better incentives to reduce extremism than Plurality. My research that found that Condorcet methods offer much stronger incentives for depolarization than RCV also found that RCV has better incentives than Plurality (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S026137942400057X).

Expand full comment
p48h93h438's avatar

> Ranked Choice Voting (RCV) is one of the fastest-growing voting reforms in the United States.

You can't be serious. RCV has been failing spectacularly, and is now banned in more states than it has been adopted in.

I genuinely don't understand why you people are so committed to RCV. You finally understand the Center Squeeze effect, and you recognize that it prevents RCV from fixing polarization, and that it perpetuates the same problems as our current system, but instead of allowing evidence to change your mind, you just double down and keep pushing an unpopular reform with bogus claims that its flaws don't actually matter in practice, even after it demonstrably fails.

I don't get it. "Getting RCV adopted" is obviously your goal, but shouldn't "improving democracy" be your goal?

Expand full comment
21 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?