Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Edward HITCHCOCK's avatar

Wasted votes in list systems arise from the use of fixed thresholds or the existing of implied thresholds. The Spare vote (second choice of party vote ott.nz, 'dual voting' dualvoting.com) allows every voter to vote for any party, and if that party does not pass threshold, vote for a party much more likely to qualify.

If you talk of 'proportional representation' you need to know what is proportional to what. List systems including MMP seats are proportional to votes for qualifying parties, and with the spare vote all votes can qualify.

If the PR objective is seats in proprtion to votes, you need a clear expression of party preference in every . RCV does not provide that unless you go by first preferences, in which case why bother with the others. You may like ranked ballots but they do not help a system be more party proportional.

Both USA and Canada suffer from a huge range of state/prov sizes, varying from <1% of the population to more than 10% of the population. If each state/prov must have separate representation, those smaller ones have only one seat from one party. There is no obvious solution to this problem.

List members are much less isolated from local areas than you might think. In NZ list members must be geographically distributed (for party credibility) and most list members involve themselves in local and national issues.

Expand full comment
Ryan Regier's avatar

You mentioned that a 4-seat district has a 20% threshold, leading to wasted votes in a party list system. But in a party list system with no legal threshold, parties below this number can still be elected if voters are fragmented. For example, if six parties are all at around 16%, then the three parties with the most votes earn one seat each despite none of them hitting the threshold. Furthermore, STV allows up to 20% of the votes to be wasted, since this many votes can be cast for a loser that makes it to the final round, so the votes never transfer to a winner. Being above 20% guarantees a win in both systems, but being below is not necessarily a loss in either system.

National party list systems being used often waste more votes than necessary by choice, since they enforce a high legal threshold (such as a 5% threshold in Germany, where reaching 5% is good enough for about 40 seats but 4.9% gets you nothing) to prevent too many political parties and fractionalization. I would not enforce a threshold in the US, since small magnitude districts will have the same effect at reducing party count, and if anything we need more party fractionalization instead of less. No legal threshold means fewer wasted votes (though it certainly doesn't bring them to 0).

All this to say, votes will still be wasted under party lists, and probably more than STV, but I think the issue was slightly overstated.

Expand full comment
19 more comments...

No posts