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Robert Bristow-Johnson's avatar

Steven, since I was not following you (or anyone else on substack) two years ago, I hadn't seen this post before. It's a good comparison of the methods, a little light on the actual details of the method of tallying votes and identifying who the winners are. That's okay.

I just cannot see any Party List or even MMP in use in governmental elections in the U.S.

Parties are a reality. We even need law to govern intra-party actions and elections (primaries) just as we have laws governing private corporations and private unions. We have these laws so that one faction of such an organization does not screw over other factions, or the body as a whole, in some smoke-filled room. I am still on the fence between jungle primaries vs. closed primaries. What I *don't* like is what we have in Vermont: partisan primaries that are completely open. That system is rife for crossover abuse. That happens all the time.

But we must not officially disadvantage voters or candidates that choose to vote for or to run for office independently of any party. Yes, independent candidates will be naturally disadvantaged because of Duverger's Law: statistically some people, who might otherwise prefer an independent candidate, will choose to vote tactically for a major party candidate because they reasonably fear that their sincere vote would be wasted.

Ranked-Choice Voting is meant to relieve voters of that fear, but Party List or MMP *officially* discriminates against independent candidates and we mustn't do that. It's anti-democratic.

Proportional RCV (a.k.a. STV) that uses the Droop quota and fairly transfers surplus votes is the only truly fair proportional voting system. And it would be good for districts that are small enough to have only two or three seats in the legislative body.

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Edward HITCHCOCK's avatar

Wasted votes in list systems arise from the use of fixed thresholds or the existing of implied thresholds. The Spare vote (second choice of party vote ott.nz, 'dual voting' dualvoting.com) allows every voter to vote for any party, and if that party does not pass threshold, vote for a party much more likely to qualify.

If you talk of 'proportional representation' you need to know what is proportional to what. List systems including MMP seats are proportional to votes for qualifying parties, and with the spare vote all votes can qualify.

If the PR objective is seats in proprtion to votes, you need a clear expression of party preference in every . RCV does not provide that unless you go by first preferences, in which case why bother with the others. You may like ranked ballots but they do not help a system be more party proportional.

Both USA and Canada suffer from a huge range of state/prov sizes, varying from <1% of the population to more than 10% of the population. If each state/prov must have separate representation, those smaller ones have only one seat from one party. There is no obvious solution to this problem.

List members are much less isolated from local areas than you might think. In NZ list members must be geographically distributed (for party credibility) and most list members involve themselves in local and national issues.

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