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Ryan Regier's avatar

You mentioned that a 4-seat district has a 20% threshold, leading to wasted votes in a party list system. But in a party list system with no legal threshold, parties below this number can still be elected if voters are fragmented. For example, if six parties are all at around 16%, then the three parties with the most votes earn one seat each despite none of them hitting the threshold. Furthermore, STV allows up to 20% of the votes to be wasted, since this many votes can be cast for a loser that makes it to the final round, so the votes never transfer to a winner. Being above 20% guarantees a win in both systems, but being below is not necessarily a loss in either system.

National party list systems being used often waste more votes than necessary by choice, since they enforce a high legal threshold (such as a 5% threshold in Germany, where reaching 5% is good enough for about 40 seats but 4.9% gets you nothing) to prevent too many political parties and fractionalization. I would not enforce a threshold in the US, since small magnitude districts will have the same effect at reducing party count, and if anything we need more party fractionalization instead of less. No legal threshold means fewer wasted votes (though it certainly doesn't bring them to 0).

All this to say, votes will still be wasted under party lists, and probably more than STV, but I think the issue was slightly overstated.

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Robert Bristow-Johnson's avatar

Steven, since I was not following you (or anyone else on substack) two years ago, I hadn't seen this post before. It's a good comparison of the methods, a little light on the actual details of the method of tallying votes and identifying who the winners are. That's okay.

I just cannot see any Party List or even MMP in use in governmental elections in the U.S.

Parties are a reality. We even need law to govern intra-party actions and elections (primaries) just as we have laws governing private corporations and private unions. We have these laws so that one faction of such an organization does not screw over other factions, or the body as a whole, in some smoke-filled room. I am still on the fence between jungle primaries vs. closed primaries. What I *don't* like is what we have in Vermont: partisan primaries that are completely open. That system is rife for crossover abuse. That happens all the time.

But we must not officially disadvantage voters or candidates that choose to vote for or to run for office independently of any party. Yes, independent candidates will be naturally disadvantaged because of Duverger's Law: statistically some people, who might otherwise prefer an independent candidate, will choose to vote tactically for a major party candidate because they reasonably fear that their sincere vote would be wasted.

Ranked-Choice Voting is meant to relieve voters of that fear, but Party List or MMP *officially* discriminates against independent candidates and we mustn't do that. It's anti-democratic.

Proportional RCV (a.k.a. STV) that uses the Droop quota and fairly transfers surplus votes is the only truly fair proportional voting system. And it would be good for districts that are small enough to have only two or three seats in the legislative body.

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